Tuesday, 15 July 2014

A Story from a Reader

One of the blog's regular readers emailed me an experience he had at Loch Ness some years back. J.S. (as I shall call him) lives in Scotland and was at Loch Ness over ten years ago on a camping trip. I quote to you what he initially told me:

Hi Roland nice to meet you by the way, and I am more then happy to inform you in relation to my personal Loch Ness experience it happened some years ago 2002/2003? One early morning I came back from the toilet block walking in the direction of my tent when I heard several fish jump which I recognized having done a lot of fishing with my father back in Holland.

Seconds later there was this huge splash, and I mean Roland a really enormous disturbance at the surface of the Loch which sounded as if a whale came out of the Loch and splashed back in again followed by waves crashing onto the shoreline, sadly I could not see a thing due to the fact I was blinded by the camping flood lights,..it was an experience I will never forget I tell you,.. a personal deduction of this experience tells me that what ever it was was chasing ( hunting ) these jumping fish, what do you think .... 

Further enquiries placed the event in late August or early September of 2003 at a time of about 1 or 2 in the morning with cloudy but dry weather. This audible encounter happened at the Invermoriston Caravan and Camping site which is circled on the map below.



Now, this is more of a "hearing" than a "sighting" and such encounters are rare to say the least. Given the time and month, I would doubt if J.S. would have seen much at all out on the loch. I have myself seen fish jumping out of the water ahead of what may have been a silent and invisible predator. Not necessarily a Loch Ness Monster, but certainly bigger than the fish in retreat. That may have been the closest I got to seeing our elusive monster.

Be that as it may, a large splash normally requires a proportionally large dose of energy which would require a combination of a fast and/or heavy object. What could J.S. have heard?

The ubiquitous seal may be trotted out at this point. Seals are the second largest animals that may be found in the loch. However, when they are sometimes suggested as an explanation, one wonders if there was one actually in the loch at the time of the given report? After all, they only turn up in the loch perhaps once every two years when they pursue salmon or trout from the Moray Firth. They normally end up getting shot. So it is no surprise that the times the loch has no seal in it easily outweigh the times there is one or two in it.

Or perhaps someone was just dumping something in the loch, or "fly tipping" as we call it? I would only say that the roadside is quite close to the lochside at the campsite in question, so the dramatic noise one would get from an old, useless cooker tumbling into Loch Ness from a high road point is lost at this particular location.

But I get the impression here that J.S's noise was out there in the loch rather than one originating near the shore, especially when he saw the waves come rolling into the camp shore (he had gone to the shingle shoreline to witness these as his vision got back to normal about a minute later).

If J.S. did hear our loch leviathan then that gives me encouragement. Not just because Nessie again has made her presence known in recent years, but because it occurred in the early hours, a time of day which I believe the monster is more active in (as regular readers will know from my infra-red work).

As ever, comments and interpretations are invited from other readers.








118 comments:

  1. Oh to have been there with night vision!

    I suspect that whatever the creature's motivation for surfacing like that was (mating, hunting, territorial, balancing equilibrium etc) that any fish nearby would flee ahead of it - so that much is open for speculation.

    This kind of report really does give enthusiasm for night vigils, doesn't it?

    I wonder what the wind speeds were that night. I always have a feeling that flat calms would induce surface activity - what the Scandinavians might call a "serpent day" - but perhaps that's overly romantic of me!

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  2. What is your infra - red work Glasgow boy?

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    1. Basically, I take the view that the creature is more nocturnal and is more likely to surface at night. I have an IR scope with recording capabilty which allows scanning of the loch at night time looking for something to breach the surface.

      If anyone feels generous they can buy this item for me!

      http://www.flirshop.com/product/ts24-pro-reconditioned/personal-vision

      Delete
  3. Replies
    1. Coming on shift Geordie or off ?

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  4. Invermoriston was the site of another "splash" incident in 1973. But in this case it seems to have something something substantial hastily entering the water when a farmer started his tractor. I mention this in case it turns out that there is a particular pattern of behaviour at this part of the loch's surface.

    *AnonStg*

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    1. Was that the Jeffreys sighting?

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    2. It was a farmer called Richard Jenkyns.
      (Encyclopaedia of the LNM)

      *AnonStg*

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    3. Geordie Sceptic15 July 2014 at 11:38

      When I was a kid I regularly went fishing in large lakes in England, Scotland and Wales, but not in Loch Ness. I mainly fished from the banks and on more than one occasion if I arrived at an area where no one had been for a while, I heard a large splash into the water, but saw nothing afterwards. My assumption at the time was always that the culprit was a startled otter or something else I had given a fright to. I never thought it was any kind of monster.

      So I feel this is another case of something unexplained heard or seen at Loch Ness being instantly mentally converted into a monster, when the same event would generate no such thoughts elsewhere.

      Delete
  5. When readers consider sceptical comments, they should not assume that what is proposed for a night time event is just as valid as it would be if it happened at high noon.

    Nocturnal habits have to be taken into consideration.

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    1. Geordie Sceptic15 July 2014 at 12:08

      Funny, it happened at night at a flooded gravel pit once and caused my brother and I the fright of our lives.

      I believe otters are nocturnal animals aren't they?

      Delete
  6. Ive fished plenty myself and heard otters and things making loud splashes. But never have i said it sounded like a whale!!! So unless the fella is exaggarating or drank too much tennents then i take it it must of bin something of a large size :)))

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    1. Aren't otters more active at dawn and dusk?

      Delete
    2. Geordie Sceptic15 July 2014 at 12:42

      Heard some very loud splashes I can tell you. You'd be surprised how weighty a normal animal can sound if it jumps suddenly into water, ungracefully.

      Couple that effect with the legend of Loch Ness, and suddenly we have a "giant beastie".

      Mystery solved on this one guys,

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    3. You make it sound so simple .....

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    4. Jenkyns claimed that after the splash he witnessed an object surface about 10-15 yards from the shore. It rose to about 18 inches above the surface and was 9 inches in diameter with a snake-like head. It then moved forward and sank. The time was 11.45am.

      *AnonStg*

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    5. "Mystery solved on this one guys"

      I think that comment broke my laptop with it's hubris!

      Delete
  7. Well i have stayed on that camp a few times and its quite open and always windy. I cany imagine an otter making a loud enough splash to sound like a whale. an otter jumping in a bay area or another more secluded part of the loch would probably sound louder but not by the camping park!

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  8. You can walk out to the loch ftom the park. Its not really a bank if u know what i mean. Similar to standing on dores beach were the loch starts shallow and slowly gets deeper. Very hard for an otter to jump in and making a splash!

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    1. Geordie Sceptic15 July 2014 at 13:38

      I've been there too. It's easily possible for an otter to be the cause.

      Jake, see above. Loud splash + legend of Loch Ness = a huge beast in a witness's mind.

      By far the most likely explanation for any rational person. Let's start thinking with our brains, not our hearts.

      Delete
    2. Yes, Jake. Otters don't sound a very likely explanation. I do not expect them to be around at 1-2 in the morning, especially near areas of high human activity such as campsites. It really boils down to the decibel level our witness heard. Once you get above a certain level, you can forget about otters.

      Even GS can't make up his mind, first he says "seal" then before you know it, he's onto otters. Will it be flying fridges on Wednesday and back to seals on Thursday? It just exemplifies the sceptical mindset, anything goes and is accepted, so long as it's not a monster!

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    3. I've swam and had a few close up encounters with Dolphins and IMO even they don't make huge splashes as described above. This incident reminds me of the night time encounter a few years ago when a couple returning from an evening out parked their car in a lay by and heard an enormous splash which was described as sounding like a car falling into the water. A photo of something was taken but because of the darkness and hurried nature of shot it's not very clear. I believe that you have called it the most recent land sighting GB and again we have a nocturnal incident to bolster your theory.

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    4. Yes, that was Iain Monckton's story from 2009. Another night time affair.

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    5. Geordie Sceptic15 July 2014 at 15:12

      GB, to clarify - "seal" referred to the article you posted, otters were my explanation for Jenk's splash. I could have made that clearer, but now you know.

      Splashes do not equal monsters, otherwise every lake in not only Britain, but probably the world has monsters.

      Heads not hearts, guys, heads not hearts....

      Delete
    6. "Splashes do not equal monsters, otherwise every lake in not only Britain, but probably the world has monsters. "

      Indeed, but a massive splash on Loch Ness, described by the witness as being significantly larger than would be expected from known animals, preceded by jumping fish, and resulting in waves hitting the shoreline, is at least worthy of discussion in a forum such as this.

      Your compulsion to be dismissive, and be the self appointed arbiter of calling time on the discussion, is not in league with the level of critical thinking you hope to possess.

      Delete
    7. Geordie Sceptic16 July 2014 at 02:59

      Ed, do you possess the ability to recognise that eyewitnesses (or in this case earwitness) testimony can be flawed, and especially so when you add something like a monster legend into the mix?

      I'm baffled by so much interest being pinned on a couple of splashes in a lake.

      Delete
    8. Yes, as indicated by the first word of my reply. I think you deliberately tried to misunderstand my post. We are simply discussing it on an appropriate forum, rather than making concrete assumptions either way.

      Delete
    9. Geordie Sceptic18 July 2014 at 02:08

      Your very first post at the top of the comments seems to be just totally accepting that this splash was caused by a Loch Ness Monster. Where is the balance in your messages, Ed?

      Delete
  9. The tale reinforces the theory that the LNM is mostly a nocturnal creature, at home in the dark depths of the loch, except for an occasional foray to the surface in daylight. A creature adapted to darkness, would have no trouble getting about in the dead of night. As an example, eels spend most of their time underwater, some species are nocturnal, and occasionally are known to trek unto land at night. The Arthur Grant 1:30 am land sighting of 1934 comes to mind. The LNM may have some characteristics of an eel and may even have gills. I’m not suggesting the Nessie species is a giant eel!

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  10. Haha Roland yes he did day seals then otters and said mystery solved!!!!!!! Hmmmmm lol and i doubt he has ever bin on the campsite . Nice try kid lol

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    1. Geordie Sceptic15 July 2014 at 15:13

      See above, Jake.

      Delete
  11. Whilst on the subject Roland on one documentry there was a woman by the clansman with her young daughter who at night heard something splashing round in the harbour as if it was in distress and stuck ( her words) she said it was a large creature. Do you recall this Roland?

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    1. Off the top of my head, not sure, Jake.

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  12. If i remembe rightly she was the manager of the clansman hotel or shop. She was putting something out at night with young daughter. She was convinced it was a large creature in the clansman harbour.

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    1. Geordie Sceptic15 July 2014 at 22:25

      All these reports just go to show how the imagination can run even wilder at night.

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    2. Or that big monstrous animals cavort at night.

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  13. Geordie Sceptic15 July 2014 at 15:18

    Come on guys, stop the craziness for a moment - it's just a splash, nothing more!

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  14. Poor comeback Geordie Sceptic ! You could not compare a seal splash to an otter splash- there is a big diffrence in these two animals in size and weight. If this man is telling the truth then we have to be looking at something bigger than an otter- maybe it is possible as mentioned above that somebody threw a heavy object into the Loch? But i find that hard to see with the location of the camping park because you would have 2 walk down to it. I will take it the man is sincere so to describe it as something like a whale then it must have been a big splash. A seal ? Im not so sure as these animals are very rare in the Loch.

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    1. Geordie Sceptic16 July 2014 at 05:39

      Rare indeed, but filmed and photographed very clearly on more than one occasion in Loch Ness. So we know they exist, and we know they are at times present in the loch.

      Which is far more than we can say for...... well, you know what.

      Delete
    2. But irrelevant to this discussion if it cannot be established that one was in Loch Ness around August 2003 ....

      Delete
    3. Geordie Sceptic16 July 2014 at 05:49

      So we should discount all animals which "cannot be established" as being present? Does that mean you're about to close down this blog, GB?

      Delete
    4. Establishing the presence of a known animal is different to establishing the existence of a currently unknown animal ....

      Delete
    5. Geordie Sceptic16 July 2014 at 09:30

      So you - Roland Watson, of sound mind - believe that this splash was more likely to have been caused by an unknown monster than a seal, on the bbasis that you might not be able to find any reports of a seal in the loch around the time of this reported splash?

      So if I can't verify that my wife moved my car keys, it simply must have been a poltergeist eh? Oh lordy....

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    6. If you can show there was a seal in Loch Ness at the time, I'll consider it. Just saying "seal" means nothing.

      Delete
    7. Geordie Sceptic16 July 2014 at 10:40

      That's like asking you to prove you didn't dance around your living room singing Abba songs whilst wearing nothing but an orange mankini at some point over the last year. Can you prove you didn't, Roland?

      Delete
    8. In other words, your seal theory is at best "inconclusive".

      Delete
    9. Geordie Sceptic16 July 2014 at 11:35

      Yes, but at the same time infinitely more likely to be true than "A monster which never leaves a carcass and no one has ever managed to clearly video or photograph caused the splash"

      I also strongly suspect you don't own an orange mankini.

      Delete
    10. Geordie Sceptic16 July 2014 at 11:39

      It's astounding that you demand so much proof for a seal but accept a family of monsters based on contradictory eyewitness testimony and a handful of daft B&W snaps.

      Delete
    11. This is a common logical fallacy of sceptics. If it is plausible then it is probable. That does not compute.

      Probability of "monster" being seal if no seal in loch = 0

      Probability of "monster" being seal if seal in loch = you tell me!

      Delete
    12. "contradictory", "daft" - I can handle that, you gave up a long time ago.

      I am of the opinion there was no seal in Loch Ness at the time of this story. Is this a stupid position to take?

      Delete
    13. Geordie Sceptic16 July 2014 at 12:58

      Seals exist, as proven by SCIENCE (you remember - that discipline long ago abandoned on these pages). Seals have been proven to go into Loch Ness. It's perfectly reasonable to assume they occasionally go into Loch Ness and are either shot or leave without the wider public or the internet being told they had been there in the first place.

      How ludicrous to suggest seals are anything but prime candidates for this nighttime splash.

      Really Roland, does EVERY unexplained sight and sound have to be a monster in your war against scepticism? To not even acknowledge a seal as a strong possibility once again makes you appear to approach your subject with a faith-based religious fervour, and out of the window goes any logic.

      Delete
    14. Your indulging in straw men arguments again. You cannot replace what you regard as one improbable argument with another improbable argument.

      Seals are a rare sight in Loch Ness and moreover, if one was in Loch Ness it would more likely be asleep at 1am than splashing about. Moreover, seals are not known for making huge splashing noises.

      If you wish to pursue this argument, go and research whether there was a seal in Loch Ness in August 2003. The burden of proof is on you since the probability is low that one was there.

      And, no, I do not accept every sighting ever claimed to be of the monster. No one does that.

      Delete
    15. Geordie Sceptic17 July 2014 at 02:13

      Your penultimate paragraph is hilarious and makes me realise there is actually no point in continuing this ridiculous conversation. I think you were probably chuckling as you typed it.

      Delete
    16. Obviously the burden of proof is on monster believers. That is why I have run this blog for four years. However, when the burden of proof suddenly falls on you ....

      Delete
    17. Geordie Sceptic17 July 2014 at 02:23

      :-D

      Delete
  15. Another question - do seals often make such a large splash? It does not seem that this was entering the water from the land, and I don't think seals often come entirely out of the water like dolphins.

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    1. I don't think seals breach the water like other animals. Fish like pike and sturgeon will jump out of the water and create a splash.

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  16. I did see above geordie la thats why i said it!! By ur comments its obviuos u dont know the caravan park area!!

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    1. Interpretation of events is not a one size fits all approach. As you say, Jake, location, time, date, weather, etc should be taken into account.

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    2. Geordie Sceptic16 July 2014 at 05:36

      I've stayed at the Invermoriston campsite with my wife for a week in 1995. Please stop suggesting I am lying.

      Delete
  17. One thing no-one is discussing here is...the waves. Sounds of a splash are quite subjective. Wave size generated by the object is surely a more accurate indicator of the size of whatever caused them (larger bodies=greater displacement) and are visible for a far greater duration, sound being transient by nature.
    Much might be gained from an infra-red recording of such wave patterns!

    Obvious example- the waves caused by a passing mallard are in no way comparable to those made by the many pleasure cruisers that pad up and down the loch all day!

    The witness mentions waves "crashing on to the shore". Does a seal have enough mass to generate waves that match such a (admittedly to some degree subjective) description?- please note that this a genuine unbiased question and not one with a pro/anti Nessie bias.
    What this description does bring immediately to my mind is.....the waves generated by these large boats as they pass up and down the loch (I am not a local, but due to my circumstances I am at Loch Ness quite often- probably close to 10 times already this year, and I am very familiar with that of which I speak- I've been visiting on and off for more than 20 years).

    So this leads me to slightly favour the idea of something larger than a seal....in some ways these night time reports with physical evidence (waves and splashing) are more interesting to me than any others.

    Anyone care to comment? Geordie Sceptic, you just don't seem to come from a place of objectivity. You've said definitively that it's a seal but objectively you have no evidence for this! Roland, I have to say that sometimes I feel you are too generous with things on the pro side of the debate, though I must say I am hugely greatful for your work on this subject. It's so hard to be impassionate and centered with this topic isn't it!

    So, witnesses....pay attention to the generated waves, their height and duration....that is where the "money shot" lies....imo.

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    1. Rohan, the wave effect is a point of discussion. One thing that has to be noted is whether the force of the waves diminished after a period of observation. If they continued to come in with the same force after a certain time then it is likely the wave observation is neutral to this debate.

      I admit I am too generous at times, this is a concious decision to balance the completely opposite stance one will see on sceptical websites!

      Delete
    2. Geordie Sceptic16 July 2014 at 05:34

      Just typing "Seal" as one word was also a failed attempt at flippant humour on my part. Of course I don't actually know it was a seal, but I believe it's far more likely than a monster.

      Delete
    3. It's impossible if there was no seal in Loch Ness at the time ....

      Delete
  18. Geordie im not implying ur lying la but surrly if uve bin there u eud know the shoreline and its shallow for a while with no banks and water deep enough to jump in . Ok it was 1995 so a long while ago so maybe u forgot.....i take it back :)

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    1. Geordie Sceptic16 July 2014 at 07:17

      Wrong. Or certainly wrong back in 95.

      Anyway, I thought you were saying a monster jumped in? Wouldn't a monster encounter the same bank conditions?

      Delete
  19. Would you really hear the sound of fish jumping in the loch while walking back from the toilet block at the Invermoriston campsite??

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  20. Were have i said a monster jumped in? Lol

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    1. Geordie Sceptic16 July 2014 at 09:47

      So what caused the bankside Jenk splash in your opinion Jake?

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  21. Can i ask Geordie Sceptic what is your age please?

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    1. Geordie Sceptic16 July 2014 at 09:25

      If you give me a good enough reason for wanting to know, I'll tell you.

      Delete
  22. I suppose trevor it would depend on how close he was to the loch when he came from the toilet! I doubt he would hear them if he was by the toilet but if he had reached his tent or caravan he might !!

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  23. It would need to be a very very quiet night and very calm water i'd have thought. Possible though i suppose.

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    1. Standing by the Loch side at night with no traffic and nothing more than a mild breeze it is eerily calm and quiet. In fact quiet enough to hear fish jumping from 50+ yards out having witnessed this ourselves a few times on our trips up there. We have even been standing on the turret of Urquart Castle overlooking the Loch during the day time and have witnessed and heard the sounds of just a few jumping fish so I don't have a problem with JS's account.

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    2. Im a lochside resident, so i can accept there are many locations on the loch where you could hear fish jumping in certain calm conditions, but i'm not sure about Invermoriston campsite. Pitches are set a bit back from and above the water, there's more often than not a cross-wind there, and there's also background noise from the generator they use for the lighting.

      I've been over there quite a lot so i'm just trying to imagine the scene from the camper's perspective coming back from the shower block.

      Delete
  24. I will have to read the full story geordie before i can answer!

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  25. I like to add to this discussion that the person inquestion is a trained and objective observer with a well educated scientific background the disturbance heard was identical to that of a whale breaking the surface and splashing back in again.

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    1. A trained and objective observer he may be, but he didn't observe anything. As for educated scientific backgrounds - well, Rhines had one of those too.

      Delete
    2. Whale sized splash is not to be ignored Mr cat,not even for money.

      Delete
  26. In his report, JS, specifically goes to lengths to point out that the disturbance was comparable to a whale breaching. He says "[it was] a really enormous disturbance at the surface of the Loch which sounded as if a whale came out of the Loch and splashed back in again followed by waves crashing onto the shoreline"

    This is what that looks and sounds like:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0iN5mATipI

    So talk of otters and seals are pretty much direct accusations of JS being delusional or outright lying. I think his account deserves more respect than that.

    Watching the kind of water disturbance he uses as reference, it is my opinion that seals and otters are not satisfactory explanations.

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    1. Geordie Sceptic17 July 2014 at 03:29

      That depends on whether you take the report at face value, or think the circumstances are likely to have resulted in an exaggerated recall of what happened. A believer tends to go for the former, a sceptic for the latter.

      Once again we'll never know the truth.

      Delete
    2. I don't think questioning the account is disrespectful.

      I'm more towards the believer side than the sceptical side in the LNM debate, but examining any account is - i think - quite a healthy way to approach the subject, rather than just accepting it as is, simply because it's 'pro-monster'.

      You can be a believer and still accept that a lot - indeed maybe the majority - of reported sightings are misidentification, exaggeration or outright porkies.

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    3. Many the majority of reported sightings are correct identification,non-exaggerated,pork free large whale size unknown animals in the loch.there I am using the pronessie template.how do you like it?

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    4. Better than the anti-nessie template!

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  27. Sounds like its a diffrent scenario to the jenkyns one. Jenkyns one jumped into the water whilst this whale like one jumped whilst in the water! It would be a completly diffrent type of splash i shud imagine.

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    1. And then there's The Curious Incident Of The Ducks In The Night Time. In August 1997 a tourist at the campsite started hearing "the agitated splashing of a flock of ducks nearby in the water" at 3.00 in the morning. Then a humming noise started coming from the loch. She chose not to investigate.

      *AnonStg*

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  28. Geordie Sceptic17 July 2014 at 15:33

    Nearly 90 comments already! Well you've certainly caused a *splash* with this article Roland my friend!

    Still not sure why you don't want to meet me though.....

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  29. The mysterious humming noise was a geophysical tectonic strain related and observed phenomena,....JD

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  30. Geordie Sceptic18 July 2014 at 07:45

    For anyone who suggests seals don't breach the surface. Imagine this animal chasing fish on the surface: http://youtu.be/L3pfDImBX0k

    Now, I wonder why someone would post that seals don't breach the surface?

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    1. Thanks, Monterey Beach, hot day? Not so sure they would do it at 1am in cold Loch Ness in August ....

      Am I taking a defensible position in saying there was no seal in Loch Ness at that time?

      Delete
    2. But the witness stressed that the disturbance was more like this:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0iN5mATipI

      It's not even comparable to a seal. He went on to state that waves were CRASHING on to the shore.

      A seal is possible, I suppose Geordie, but not consistent with the witness's report.

      Delete
    3. Geordie Sceptic18 July 2014 at 10:12

      That depends on whether you take the report at face value, or think the circumstances are likely to have resulted in an exaggerated recall of what happened. A believer tends to go for the former, a sceptic for the latter.

      Once again we'll never know the truth.

      Delete
    4. Geordie Sceptic18 July 2014 at 10:25

      This concept of some (imaginary) whale-sized animal aggressively hurling itself out of the water in an attempt to grab fleeing fish, and then crashing down, sending out waves that lap on the shore..... well, doesn't this strike you as somewhat different from other Nessie reports over the decades? I've never heard of such a thing, and nor (surprise surprise) has anything even remotely like this been captured on video.

      That is why, even if I were a Nessie believer, I would be very open minded about the accuracy of this report and what actually happened. This doesn't quite ring true, just like the Dr S Thomson posts.

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    5. Geordie Sceptic18 July 2014 at 10:31

      GB, as I have clearly established that it is possible for a seal to enter the loch and leave or be killed without you and I ever knowing about it, you simply cannot say a seal wasn't there. A seal could have been there. You know it, I know it, and the readers of this blog know it.

      Delete
    6. With all the negative and somewhat ridiculing remarks to this particular sighting/hearing/occurrence it's no wonder that the number of reported sightings has diminished. I'd better be careful what I say because I've just realised that I could be accused of taking a defensible position lol.

      Delete
    7. Geordie Sceptic19 July 2014 at 05:16

      Ok let's look at what has come from believers on this page:

      1) Another two accusations towards a sceptic and a semi-sceptic that we are being paid to post here.

      2) An accusation of "internet template" usage, whatever that is.

      3) A false suggestion that I had said one report was a seal then an otter.

      4) The hilarious suggestion that the burden of proof lies with sceptics to show evidence of a seal in the loch 11 years ago.

      5) The totally false assertion that seals don't breach the surface, followed by then saying they wouldn't do so in August in Scotland, based on nothing whatsoever.

      Perhaps both sides should take a look at themselves, Pete?

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    8. Yes, in *theory* a seal could have been in Loch Ness, but from what we know of seals in Loch Ness, the probabilities are against it. If I were a sceptic, it would be simpler to go for the fly tipping theory. More probable, though still has its problems.

      Delete
    9. Geordie,the man heard a WHALE sized splash,with corresponding waves.It was NOT imaginary.Your sense of logic appears to be imaginary.As for a template your comments can be studied to determine if you are gchq.

      Delete
    10. Geordie Sceptic20 July 2014 at 05:50

      Anonymous, the man REPORTED a whale sized splash, with no evidence to back it up.

      If I reported seeing a sturgeon in the watet, would you simply accept my word?

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    11. Adrian Shine was fooled by a rock in the water back in the late 60's, though I'm not too sure about the date. When asked about this his response was "If I can't trust my own eyes, then how can I trust the eyesight of anyone else?" The thing is he momentarily thought he had seen something else that he thought was moving in the water, when in actual fact it was a rock he was seeing and it was actually him that was moving, being in a boat at the time. It was only when he neared this static object that he realised it was just a rock. This isn't the same as witnessing a large "object" surfacing, moving around and then submerging whilst standing on the Loch shore. A rock is a rock, as Adrian correctly identified it, so he wasn't actually fooled after all IMO. And yes GS we do have a bit of a problem when it comes to accepting somebody's word but I am still sure there are plenty of genuine sightings, both reported and unreported over the years and I believe this because it is just plain and simple human nature, including the hoaxes.

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    12. Whale sized splash,AND corresponding waves coming ashore.CORROSPONDING SIZED WAVES,I honestly think you skeptics are not right in the head really.

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    13. JS says nothing about the size of the waves in the report. I think you're allowing your imagination to fill the gaps.

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    14. Geordie Sceptic22 July 2014 at 03:36

      No, Anonymous - a REPORT of a whale-sized splash. Nothing more. Certainly no evidence that we can analyse effectively here.

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  31. I don't see anyone being ridiculed. And, as i said earlier, i see nothing wrong with questioning a sighting report to see if it holds water, or possibly flesh out inconsistencies, errors or mistaken identity. If the LNM mystery is ever to be solved one way or the other - this is the kind of questioning that will lead to the solution.

    Dont forget, the guy who debunked the most famous Nessie photo of all is a believer!

    I see some strange logic in play on both sides of the debate here. I don't think our man heard a seal, but i don't get the logic in dismissing it as a possible explanation based on the rarity of seals in the loch. That seems a strange logic given it's the LNM we're debating here!

    I think the debate adds to the blog though. It'd be a much duller affair if every report, story, anecdote, sighting or 'hearing' was just taken at face value.

    One thing i'd be interested in seeing, Roland, is if there are any sighting 'hotspots'. I know Urquhart Bay is an obvious one, but i'm under the impression Foyers is too? What about Tor Point - i was sat there the other night looking out over flat calm waters at dusk and got to thinking if there had been any sighting recorded around there over the years. I know about the Greta Findlay one just round the point at Aldourie Pier, but are there any more?

    Would be an interesting article.

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    Replies
    1. Trevor, there are the familiar hotspots around populated areas and unrestricted views. So, not easy to filter these out to find the true spots favoured by the creatures.

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    2. Perhaps I should have said "ridiculous" remarks in my earlier comment. But really, based on the witnesses account, which is all we have to go on, I really cant see, or hear for that matter, an otter making a humungous splash and creating the waves described. (Unless it was a very large otter jumping from a 20 metre platform)

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    3. Geordie Sceptic20 July 2014 at 23:18

      Pete, go through the comments on this page and you will not find any instances of anyone suggesting that the splash in this article could have been caused by an otter. I have suggested a seal, but at no point an otter.

      The only thing "ridiculous" is when people try to score points based on misquoting of others.

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    4. GS, this is one of your earlier comments.


      Geordie Sceptic15 July 2014 11:38

      When I was a kid I regularly went fishing in large lakes in England, Scotland and Wales, but not in Loch Ness. I mainly fished from the banks and on more than one occasion if I arrived at an area where no one had been for a while, I heard a large splash into the water, but saw nothing afterwards. My assumption at the time was always that the culprit was a startled otter or something else I had given a fright to. I never thought it was any kind of monster.

      So I feel this is another case of something unexplained heard or seen at Loch Ness being instantly mentally converted into a monster, when the same event would generate no such thoughts elsewhere.

      Forgive me if I'm wrong but it sounds like you are implying the otter hypothesis here, or partially at the very least.

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    5. Geordie Sceptic22 July 2014 at 01:57

      You are indeed completely wrong, look at all tne posts above and you will see that I was referring to the Jenkyns bankside splash when mentioning otters. Not the mighty splash which is the subject of this article.

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    6. Well mercy me! You have adjusted your argument to fit your argument. You are very versatile indeed.

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    7. 2 separate splashes, 2 different sources. Not rocket science Pete :)

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    8. An implication was made by GS my dear Watson. That's clearly stated in my comment. Ditto the cliché regarding rocket science :-)

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  32. I dont think there are hotspots for sightings. Urquhart bay yes but thats because of the volume of tourists there. There could be the same chance of a nessie popping up on the south shore by the horseshoe but nobody would see it !

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  33. Agreed. The more touristy areas the more sightings. Its a pity we cant have more sonar boats regularly on the loch then maybe after a while we could locate were the most contacts are obtained.

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  34. Oppoosite horshoe scree just before caravan park is the hotspot for these creatures :)

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  35. Steepest part of the shoreline i think.

    I know there was a land sighting recorded there, but it seemed a bit bogus. Something about a 60 foot LNM sunning itself on the screes viewed through binoculars.

    Any more horseshoe scree sightings?

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  36. Other side of the horeshoe i mean. Same side as caravan park.

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