Thursday, 22 October 2020

The Latest Sonar Contact of Nessie

 


It has been a while since we had a sonar contact story from Loch Ness, but we have a good one here. The Mail on Sunday got a hold of the story and published on the 5th October. The gist of the main story is reproduced here for the record (these original links do sometimes disappear after a while) and I suspect the original print article had more information:


A sonar has detected a mystery 30ft long shape 500ft below the surface of Loch Ness - immediately sparking excited speculation from Nessie hunters. The 'solid and pretty big' sonar contact was picked up by a boat owned by Cruise Loch Ness. The mystery creature is likely to feed on trout and eels at the bottom of the loch, which has the largest volume of freshwater in Britain.

Director Ronald Mackenzie, 48, said: 'Who knows what it is, there is quite a lot of fish at the bottom of the loch, there is carnivorous trout and eels. I believe that there is something big living deep down in the Loch, who knows what it can be but I would love to think it's Nessie. It is something which is feeding on eels or trout. It is quite unusual.'

The mass was picked up around 4pm on Wednesday when Ronald was skippering a boat with technology from two years ago, about six miles from Fort August. The father-of-three added: 'A sonar expert has looked at it and says it's genuine. There is definitely something there. I'm going to give the image to the company which made the equipment to look at.

There were 18 'confirmed' sightings of the monster last year, making it the busiest year for claimed sightings since the peak of Nessie-mania in 1983. Last September, researchers from New Zealand claimed that the Loch Ness Monster could be a large eel, extracting DNA from water samples to test for this. Research carried out in 2018 revealed that the mythical creature is worth £41 million a year to the Scottish economy.



The Sun newspaper adds a few more details from Duncan:

We were at our halfway point off Invermoriston, where we turn around. The water is 620ft deep there. The passengers were quite excited because we had just spotted a sea eagle, but then I saw on the sonar something more eye-catching. It was right in the middle of the loch at about 558ft down. It was big – at least 33ft. The contact lasted 10 seconds while we passed over.  I’ve been on the loch since I was 16 years old and I have never seen anything like it. We have real state-of-the-art sonar on the new boat. It doesn’t lie. It captures what’s there. All the dots nearer the surface are shoals of Arctic char and deeper down there are ferox trout, so it gives you a good idea of the size of this large crescent shape.
Cruise Loch Ness posted the day after on their own Facebook page and monster hunter, Steve Feltham, has also been pushing this sonar contact on his own blog and talks about his involvement in persuading Ronald to release the image to the mainstream media. Cruise Loch Ness have been in the news before with their sonar contacts. Back in September 2011, Marcus Atkinson recorded an unusual trace near Urquhart Castle which generated some headlines as well. That article can be read here and is part of a sequence of articles over the last ten years following news of various anomalous contacts. I also wrote on their cruise business last year here.

I am not sure whether Ronald believes this is the Loch Ness Monster, but as a director of the cruise company he was keen to send it off for analysis to the manufacturers of the sonar hardware and we await further information. The article initially estimates the length of the object as ten metres or about thirty feet, which is a typical Nessie size. I blew up the image to full screen size and using a simple ruler against the depth axis you can see on the right hand side, an estimate of the area the object notionally occupies on the screen can be made. This comes out as about 2.3 metres per millimetre giving us a horizontal extent of about 9.3 metres and a vertical extent of about 3.4 metres or thirty by eleven feet.

I say notionally because dimensions are not all they seem on a sonar display. The depth at about five hundred feet can be taken as accurate enough using the depth scale. I estimate the object is at a depth of about 175 metres and the bottom of the loch is at 188 metres, so the object is about 570 feet deep and about 43 feet off the bottom. The problem is whether the object is actually thirty foot long and eleven foot thick and this lies in the fact that a sonar image is not like an optical image because though the vertical axis measures depth in metres, the horizontal axis measure time.

So what you may intuitively think is a large underwater mountain to the right of the creature is nothing of the sort for the loch is a flat basin. What actually happens is that the sonar machine under the boat sends out sound pulses at regular intervals at a frequency of 200KHz which are echoed back and analysed by the onboard hardware. Sonar records variations in density (water, gas, solid) and so what is rendered on the screen shows such variations. Now since animal flesh is mainly water, it does not register so well. In fact, when it comes to registering fish, it is their gas filled swim bladders that display the strongest signals on the screen. If this anomalous trace is a swim bladder, the overall creature would be enormous. But we do not know if it is a swim bladder.
 
Nevertheless, looking at the smaller specks on the screen, at the top near the surface and around the bottom, we can take these to be char, trout and eels amongst others. If relative size is anything to go by, then that gives us another ruler estimate that the contact is ten to fifteen times bigger than the fish contacts. Large fish sizes at Loch Ness can vary from one to three feet or more. But remember it is just the area of largest density variation that is being displayed. The actual object could be multiple times longer than the trace size and the more accurate vertical measure of over three metres is itself an indication of something large in the horizontal.

Going back to the overall trace, I can't quite remember if the constantly updating screen display goes from right to left or left to right. I will plump for left to right which means the oldest part of the display is on the right. Based on that assumption, we can see how the boat moved from deep water to the shore where the side wall of the loch rises to a depth of zero metres. Obviously, the sonar can only register land mass that is in water and not above. The peak then tails off and drops back down to about 200 metres and this is consistent with the testimony that they had reached the halfway point and turned around to head back into deeper waters.

The object then makes its appearance and then the contour of the loch begins to rise again suggesting the boat was moving a bit closer to land for a time, but not as close. I recall on my trip we stopped just off the Horseshoe Scree which is a bit south and opposite to Invermoriston. One well known Nessie sceptic who analysed this image suggested the new rising contour was the opposite side of the loch and hence this image was a complete profile of the loch bed from west to east. Using the known width of the loch at this point he calculated the object's width was a gigantic 50 metres - a number designed to cast doubt. This is incorrect as the boat would not have crossed that far over. This is an erroneous interpretation verging on disinformation and so we shall move swiftly on.

The next issue is the time axis and the dimensions of the creature. For example, if the object had stayed under the boat and tracked the same route as the boat, it would never leave the screen and form a long streak. One may presume the vertical size of the object would remain fairly constant. If it went off at a perpendicular direction to the boat, we may have a somewhat extended version of the object. However, looking at the zoom in of the object and its uniform crescent shape, there is a symmetry to the shape which suggests to me that it was closer to stationary that in motion. Note that smaller fish can also register this kind of crescent shape which may suggest a similar motion, though on this screen they are too small to be clear.

Since the horizontal axis is time, it does not measure distance. The display screen shows that the speed of the boat at the time of the snapshot was 10.7 knots or 12.3 mph or 18 feet per second. The witness states "the contact lasted 10 seconds while we passed over". So the object is bound within a maximum sonar cone with a diameter of 180 feet. But it is not clear what the speed was when over the object as the 10.7 knots was displayed further on and this would have been the speed quoted in the article. Since the boat would be heading off from a standing start at the turnaround point, it would be gaining in speed until the contact was hit. One assumption in all this is that one second of updating on the sonar screen display equates to one second of boat travel, which is not actually certain.
 
So what could it be? A large bubble of gas? The low decomposition rates and high water pressure at the bottom of the loch mitigate against this. Even if it was a gas release, this would travel upwards and so a angled vertical streak should be visible on the display as it heads up. A tree trunk floating over forty feet above the bottom? The abyssal plain of Loch Ness is very quiet and does not invite the kind of underwater currents that stir the waters above at the thermocline. To put it bluntly, no one has observed this phenomenon and it is not clear what a waterlogged tree trunk would look like on sonar as the variation in density with the surrounding water is far from that of a gas filled swim bladder. A shoal of fish seems unlikely at this depth and looks too "dense" to portray a loose aggregation of fish.
 
The manufacturers of the sonar will give their own analysis, but initial suggestions via Steve Feltham is that they think it is not a group of fish and it is likely a solid object between fifteen and twenty foot long. I would inquire as to whether that "solid" refers exclusively to the possible gas filled void or a larger estimate?

Now having considered various alternative explanations, one question to ask is where are all the other sonar contacts like this? If this is the best sonar contact in decades and we have various sonar-equipped boats sweeping the loch most days of the year, why have other similar contacts not been captured? Does the monster only pop up from the depths of the silt laden bottom a few times a year? That does not seem consistent with the amount of eyewitness testimonies on the surface over the last 87 years.

I suspect sonar hits such as this should not be as rare as the record suggests. I went over the discussions I have had with the Cruise Loch Ness crew in times past and this does indeed seem to be the case. When I went on a trip with them in April 2016, I was told by a crew member that they get large, anomalous sonar reading perhaps once every two years. On a return trip last year, a similar discussion with one of the older staff led to the statement that the boats have had about 600 sonar contacts over 10 years, most of those which were GPS tagged and when revisited were gone. That is one on average every week. Moreover, one crew member said he had once seen a sonar contact on the screen which required his thumb to cover it. That sounds similar to this latest contact!

That does not mean ever single contact is a monster, but I took a shot of an interesting blip on the sonar screen that day in 2016 which I reproduce below. The circular blip is seen above the big number "6". Measuring the object against the depth axis again gives a vertical extent of 3.33 metres or about eleven feet. The depth is estimated at about 130 metres or 420 feet. It is not as good as the latest image, but if I got that on a rare trip, what other interesting game changing images have Cruise Loch Ness obtained over the months and years but never get published? I was told that one of the senior crew has a private collection of these images collected over the years. I would love it if he released the best images to all Loch Ness researchers with no fear or favour for us all to pour over. 





The point being such a collection - not a single rare image - confirms that if there are large creatures swimming deep in the loch, you are not going to get one hit every thirty years. It is going to be a regular event and the images will range from interesting but inconclusive to very interesting and positive evidence. Let's face it, boats may be obtaining these sonar traces a lot more frequently than supposed, but they do not make it into the public domain unless they are more impressive.
 
So Steve Feltham says this is game changing evidence and "potentially the best indisputable evidence for large unidentified animals swimming about in Loch Ness". I think what constitutes best evidence in the eyes of each Nessie follower can be influenced by what genre they regard as most important be it video, picture, sonar or testimony. 




But I would say game changing evidence is determined with hindsight. For example, the Tim Dinsdale film was game changing evidence. We know this by what happened in the years following. Because people from all levels of society reacted to it in terms of attitudes and actions. The Loch Ness Investigation Bureau and all the other expeditions of the 1960s would not have happened if that film never saw the light of day. That is what I call game changing. Will this sonar contact have the same effect? I am not so sure.

I say that because we live in a much more sceptical age and the activity of the 1960s is unlikely to be reproduced as a result of evidence today. People are harder to convince today. What we may hope for is a like for like reaction. Various sonar manufacturers in the past have visited the loch to test their equipment. This may encourage some more to mount a more thorough and technical visit. However, the issue here is that the loch is already regularly swept by sonar by the various tourist boats from the top to the bottom of the loch and I suggest there are enough sonar images in the public eye or held in private. What are another few boats going to add?

The reaction has to be in superior equipment deployed at the loch such as the cutting edge Kongsberg family of autonomous underwater vehicles such as the MUNIN variant shown below which was trialed at Loch Ness back in 2016 when it found the remains of the 1969 Sherlock Holmes movie monster prop. The ability of this device to approach objects and areas of interest and thus produce more detailed sonar images is an obvious advantage to surface bound emitters.


The quality of the prop image below means a real monster could be resolved from a mere crescent shape to something approaching its real shape and form. There is however one problem as I found out when I contacted Kongsberg. If you want to buy such a sonar torpedo, it will set you back about £1,750,000 ($2,300,000). What if we just rented it for the duration of the search? That would be about £8,000 per day ($10,500) not including the specialists you would have to pay for to operate the complex equipment. 




That is probably not surprising for such cutting edge equipment and one would also have to consider how long the UAV would have to be deployed for in order to finally obtain a viable target to pursue? Days, weeks or months? A month's rent would cost £240,000! Also, could the monster out swim the maximum speed of the unit which is about six knots (7 mph)? Clearly, throwing such a large amount of money at this heightened level of search carries its own risks.

How game changing does evidence have to be to move some tech company, rich individual or sponsor company to put their resources or money at the loch's disposal? Only time will really tell on that score.


The author can be contacted at lochnesskelpie@gmail.com










73 comments:

  1. I know there was a lot of discussion regarding this in your previous blog, but this breakdown was very enlightening. Excellent read as always big yin.

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  2. I forgot to add....I agree that if the sonar capture is indeed the swim bladder of this animal, it has to be enormous!

    I don't suppose you've managed to ascertain who has the collection of images and whether or not he would share them with you?

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  3. Great breakdown as per. Without wishing to pour scorn - it's just another sonar contact. We've had these since the 60s have we not? What is fascinating to read is that boat captains may have a slew of these that could be analysed collectively. In conjunction the evidence might be special, in isolation I doubt it'll be a game changer.

    If there is a family of monsters there it should be feasible to find them with a sonar search, or with surface photo / videos with enough effort. Business as usual then...

    What I do very much love about this is that it's clearly evidence of some sort, data that can be analysed and at least speculated over. I have to say, some of the photos / videos that have been purported to be the LMN over the last 12 months or so would have been depressing if they weren't so laughable.

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  4. I thought the boat caught the contact going fron shallower water into deeper water as it turned to go back to fort augustus?

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  5. Here's the original print article, I think. May have to save image and blow it up to fairly read the text.

    https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/120746182_10220133550742065_5525201954429548751_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=ca434c&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ohc=yrJqNMiIXQcAX9jWsEd&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&tp=14&oh=1dcf1d15cf285153a7dd25556641998e&oe=5F9E122F

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  6. If the contact displays a 15-20 foot swim bladder . . . that's monstrous.

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  7. The horizontal scale is time, not distance. It is IMPOSSIBLE to put a length to this target. I am forever making that point on sonar interpretations, and cannot understand why people continue to make the same mistake.

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    1. Tony, long time no hear. I understand what you are saying and mention this in my article. That's why I took a more indirect approach to this measurement.

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  8. At last,a sonar expert. Tony Harmsworth hello and can we ask your opinion on the size of this contact then ?

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    1. Gezza, sonar experts work on the actual products, write the code, design the hardware, test the final product, support and operate them as consultants.

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  9. I was on a boat cruise of the Loch from Fort Augustus back in May 2009 and one of the crew told us he had seen " solid red contacts approx the size of the tip of his pinky finger on the sonar screen " I guess that means interesting sonar contacts of good size.
    A collection of these contacts would be great to analyze. Frequency, size , and location of course. Good hunting GB !!

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  10. Well sorry to say this, but to me it's just a blob sonar image. Until we can get an image of the sort that the Kongsberg MUNIN can resolve in actual shapes and forms, we will never get past the ambiguity of conventional sonar. Game changer? Hardly.

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  11. Oh is Tony Harmsworth not a sonar expert then?

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    1. And neither am I, but we can still make statements that are true about sonar.

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    2. None of them can match the expertise of the late,great Robert Rines.

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  12. So how come the makers of this sonar say the object is 15- 20 ft?

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    1. Agreed. Surely they wouldn’t print it, not would Mr Feltham state it if it were not fact checked surely?

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    2. The sonar image was sent to the manufacturers who we are told estimate a size of 15-20ft. They're the real experts so let's await this report. Remember we have the vertical axis which gives one dimension of size and we can compare the fish on the scan which indicate this is a big object. Be more positive!

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  13. It's a shame that the military doesn't use some of the advanced technologies (advanced sonar, laser radar, synthetic aperture radar) that they use to spot and track submarines on Loch Ness, even for a little while as a training exercise. They probably would be worried about revealing capabilities though...

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    1. Some of that military sonar is powerful enough to damage animals at sea. I would not invite them in. I don't think the other technologies are much use in deep peaty water. Sonar would be the thing if the intensity can be kept low enough.

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    2. Not quite true, David, apparently radio signals can be transmitted from divers to the surface. There may be some mineral or metal in the loch that aids this.

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    3. Short answer Olrik, the military isn't in the business of hunting down cryptids, unless they pose a National Security treat of course. But who knows what goes on behind closed doors. Governmental entities probably know more than they are willing to tell the public. Don't mean to sound like a conspiracy nut.

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    4. I seem to recall something from long ago about the RAF spotting or tracking something in the loch from an aircraft - or is this my Covid-related dementia kicking in?

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  14. Just to expand on my comment and before I be accused of being hard to please with apparent good evidence at hand. Sure, the sonar hit shows something large and anomalous, as previous sonar contacts have in the past. We Nessie adherents like to think we know, and believe some sort of large unidentified animals dwell in those deep, dark waters. The problem to me with this type of evidence is that it leaves us with the question of what exactly is it. We all seek to fully identify just exactly what these animals morphology can tell us as to their classification in comparison to known aquatic creatures, be they extinct or extant, as the case may be. That is the Holy Grail we all are hoping for one day. This is where conventional sonar falls short and fails us. In the future, there may come similar sonar contacts and we will be at the same point we are now. One may counter with “Well look, the sonar detected something large and solid” Yes, but what is it? In that sense, I guess I'm a video and picture sort of guy and am not impressed...much.

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  15. So if we cant put a size on sonar targets why is everybody getting so worked up about this image? How is it a game changer? How are we closer to finding out what nessie is? To me this sort of talk is a different kind of hoaxing. Shame on the people involved.

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    1. Gezza, we can put a size on this, no need to imply anything.

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    2. Well no we cant Roland, its as simple as that. You cant guarantee what size this is.

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    3. Gezza, I just listened to Adrian Shine during Operation Deepscan over 30 years ago discussing the sonar display. He said, now what we really want to see is a nice crescent shape half way down the chart. Looks like we got one here!

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    4. It's a big contact, look at the surrounding fish!

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    5. Yeah, Roland, but you said this could just be a swim bladder, and the rest of the animal is transparent. All this talk about size is just guess work and really means nothing.

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    6. Yes but we had 3 big contacts on operation deepscan which the yanks said bigger than sharks but smaller than whales! But Adrian shine suggested large normal fish in the loch like salmon. So where does that leave us?

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    7. I don't think Adrian really knows what those three contacts were.

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    8. I don't know if it is a swim bladder, that cannot be deduced from this image. It could be some other form of gas sac. Remember people have speculated whether Nessie has gas sacs in the hump area.

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  16. Orlik,

    You have actually stumbled upon something that did happen, back in the 1990s. At Loch Ness. By US/UK authorities. Roland knows more, because I discussed it with him via e-mail.

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    1. Anonymous: Well do tell please. Don't keep me in suspense!

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    2. Oh that's secret squirrel stuff, I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you, John.

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    3. See my comment above, because I vaguely recall something about this...

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    4. Come on, what's it all about Alfie

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  17. This article discuses some of the advanced submarine detection technologies now being developed that could help solve the LNM mystery, but of course it was observed here that the military is not in the business of doing this and would be loath to disclose any sensitive capabilities to the opposition...

    https://www.maritime-executive.com/editorials/the-new-technologies-that-could-make-it-hard-for-submarines-to-hide

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  18. This bloomin mystery doesn't get any easier does it? ?? Lol.. I was always led to believe there wasn't much fish life in the deep parts of the Loch yet here I am lookin at a sonar screen with hundreds of them over 500 foot down surrounding the object of interest!! Or so it seems!! Can sumone tell me what fish these can be living so far down in huge numbers. I think the size of the object depends on what them fish around it is...if they are tiny fish the sonar hit is very big but if the fish around it are ferox or biggish eels then it is no so big! So can sumone tell me what fish live in the depths at the time of the contact.. Evening ish?? Thanks... Cheers

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  19. And now there appears to be a second sonar contact from the same individual, but elsewhere in the loch. Don't know much more at this time. Please explain why such sonar hits would be "game-changers" when previous ones were not. I consider a change of game being Adrian Shine going "oh my" at the very least; much more importantly with a following scramble to send boats out, etc.

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    1. Of course there will be more contacts, that is exactly what I said in my article! If there is a monster in the loch, we get sonar contacts. They will come in various forms and many will be dismissed as echoes, reflections, refractions, without the slightest attempt to prove this is so. Monster in Loch = sonar contacts

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  20. I see Steve Feltham posted on his Facebook site earlier today (25th) that another sonar contact that he regards as significant was made on the 11th in a different area from the earlier one. No doubt this will receive the same reaction as the first: cynicism from some and real interest from others. As far as I'm concerned this is intriguing and exciting stuff.
    Chris Morris

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    1. Same looking large contact elsewhere in the Loch during the same month. This is interesting. The consensus is this is appearing biological and larger than the resident fish population or visiting seal.

      Where and when will the next contact appear? What if the next sonar contact is close to the surface - would it appear more distinguishable?

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    2. Same crescent shape...

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  21. Roy, those little blue dots are mostly not fish, they are 'noise'caused by both the 'gain' on the sonar being turned up quite high, and the relatively deep depth that the beam is going to.
    One or two of the dots will be ferox trout or eels.
    The line of blue dots at about 100 ft down is mostly interference caused by the temperature change at the thermocline. Any fish in amongst those dots will mostly be the char and salmon and trout, (salmon and trout will not be visible in great numbers).
    Obviously this information will have a major impact on Rolands analysis, but thems the facts, as explained to me by a real sonar expert who has spent his working life studying sonar and its characteristics.

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    1. Yes, I thought it looked a bit crowded down there, I will rely more on the small dots in the shallower waters. Either way, nothing living caught on that sonar sweep comes close to the size of the crescent shape.

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  22. Now that we have a least two sonar contacts, where do we go from here?

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  23. So we have nothing on sonar for 2 years and now we get 2 big hits within a few weeks? It looks more and more to me that something has come up the river from the sea and maybe spent some time in the loch before heading back to sea again, maybe a sturgeon or something like that.How anyone sees this as a game changer or best evidence in years is quite frankly laughable.I wish people would stop trying 2 con the public.

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  24. Thanks for that Steve Feltham.. u made it less confusing! So if the only fish likely to be that deep are ferox or eels I do belive then that the sonar contact is something sizeable... The fact that this boat goes this course regularly without picking contacts up prooves to me that this is nothing normal! After initial disappointment to hear the new evidence was just a sonar contact I now share ur enthusiasm!.. Cheers

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  25. Can we see this other contact anywhere?

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  26. Arch-sceptic Dick Raynor has waded in again: "there is every reason to recognise this as a sonar target, but there are lots of things that get washed down to the bottom of lakes. The wrapping from silage and straw bales could be carried down by the inflowing river currents and be buoyed up from the bottom by natural gases from the sediment.
    Genuine sonar target, yes. ID as a 'creature' - I'm not so sure."

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    1. He knows fine well gas discharge from those high pressure oligotrophic depths is a non-starter. More disinformation.

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    2. So how did it vanish? Poor effort by Dickie this, even by his standards.

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    3. He is flailing and struggling to explain this.

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    4. You're right, the contact would have been still been there a hour or so later when they made the next tourist trip.

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  27. Pmpl he tries 2 find an answer for anything rather than a large animal 4 every contact or photograph or video.He even tells people they have seen

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  28. He even tells people what they have seen without being there himself and not even seeing it lmao.

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    1. Yes, pretty incredible. According to him, not one out of the thousands of witnesses over a hundred years has ever accurately described what they saw. Does he expect thinking people to swallow this broad dismissive generalization of observers?

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  29. But this is summit we cud test!! Surely sumone cud throw sum of this wrapping in the loch as the sonar boat approaches. We cud then see what sort of image we wud get on the sonar screen.. Same with a log... I've always wondered how a log wud show up on sonar.. Might sound daft . But it cud easily be done!!.. Cheers

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    1. It would probably just float on the surface lol.

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  30. Doooooooohhh obvs weighing it down of course haha but not with cans of tennents ! !! It cud easily be done don't u agree GB ? Then maybe it cud eliminate Mr raynors theory... The more we can eliminate the better it looks for a living creature!!

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  31. I am not sure that sonar scans are going to unwrap the mystery of Loch Ness.Any witness of a sighting needs no convincing that a large creature exists in the depths of Loch Ness.Maybe research into putting small cameras on large fish to find out what higher predators are around that feed on them.This type of research is been used by marine biologists in the Pacific Ocean to study sharks which little is known about them.Funding for such research would be more beneficial than putting money into another sonar sweep.Operation Deepscan could only scan 60 percent of the surface area of the Loch.
    Eoin O Faodhagain.

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  32. At last someone talking sense. I agree Eoin.

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  33. My apologies if this has been discussed before but if not can we say for sure how this creature is able to see in such dark water? Any ideas? I know echo location is a theory but if there's another thought would would it be?

    A.R

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    1. Microphone work may suggest echolocation in the 1960s but the recordings seem to be gone now. It is an experiment worth pursuing again.

      Optically, both no eyes and large eyes have been suggested but the slit like "eyes" reported (hard to see eyes at hundreds of yards) suggest poor or nor eyesight.

      Smell and electrical sensors similar to sharks and other predators have also been suggested for finding food.

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    2. Sorry Roland, I was unaware that you had replied so my apologies for the delay.

      I agree with what you're saying and suggesting. I'm sure that G.Homles conducted his own little experiment in hoping to capture and record strange sounds? I could be mistaken on that one.

      Quick question, there have been several sightings of Nessie near certain locations where running water enters the Loch and over the years many have presumed that this could be Nessie's prime hunting spot. I can actually picture Nessie lying still, motionless and when the fish do arrive, Nessie gives chase.

      So my actual question...
      Would it be worthwhile placing some underwater cams and strobe lights (Rines idea) at the point where the river's meet the Loch?

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    3. Well Rines was technically at two river mouths in Urquhart Bay as well - the Coiltie and Enrick. I checked the site of John MacLean 1938 - mouth of Altsigh river. The depth could not be more than 74 feet. So this would require divers and a means of keeping the device water proof and fixed to the loch bed.

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  34. Just need to find divers who are brave enough to venture out into the Loch. There's no danger I'd be diving in those waters especially with the famous Robert Badger account floating around in head! My imagination would be the cause of my heart attack.

    It seems such a simple idea to place a camera only 74ft down with a strong enough trigger but I know the task would require funding and time.

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