tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post2835104341120312964..comments2024-03-20T18:13:07.791-07:00Comments on LOCH NESS MONSTER: The Photographic ProblemGlasgow Boyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03597014995112568086noreply@blogger.comBlogger64125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-44067613291803220382019-01-31T05:19:23.859-08:002019-01-31T05:19:23.859-08:00Wrong Gezza, the route where you told Ricky who to...Wrong Gezza, the route where you told Ricky who told Ronald who then told me is not how it happened, you may have separately told Ricky but it didn't reach me until after Ronald identified the hump as his fibreglass hump to me.<br />So unconnected iam afraid. Steve felthamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04289817093650210471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-40202829958628280972018-06-16T06:03:47.966-07:002018-06-16T06:03:47.966-07:00Agreed, but crucially, as regards the nature of th...Agreed, but crucially, as regards the nature of the subject of this blog, it is not all year round.Tony Harmsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16607137729796535784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-25938739690430893392018-06-16T04:44:30.823-07:002018-06-16T04:44:30.823-07:00I think we can all agree that the terrapn issue is...I think we can all agree that the terrapn issue is amazing as nobody would of thought that they would survive the cold winters prior to be introduced into the lakes and ponds in the Uk. The cold conditions of november until february is not a short period either. Truly amazing.GEZZAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093032226034742612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-49148159551496768432018-06-15T23:53:30.580-07:002018-06-15T23:53:30.580-07:00You are right GEZZA, although also a pseudoscienti...You are right GEZZA, although also a pseudoscientist, Rines actually did some good work on rare occasions.<br /><br />However, the evidence he found was (from memory) 400,000 years ago, so before the last ice age. No saltwater has entered after the last glaciation. Apologies if that age is incorrect. It might have been 4,000,000 years ago, but I'm not going to check as both would be equally as unimportant. <br /><br />The work on the sediments laid down since the last ice age, as far as I am aware, unless anything has been done since the nineties, showed no marine diatoms whatsoever.<br /><br />Hope that clarifies the issue.Tony Harmsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16607137729796535784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-77359882170580587832018-06-15T02:19:34.599-07:002018-06-15T02:19:34.599-07:00I agree that the geology of the loch is confusing....I agree that the geology of the loch is confusing.I watched a programme on the loch once and Robert Rines and his team claimed they found deposits in the loch that prooved that it was once sea water. GEZZAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093032226034742612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-49359481906756109142018-06-15T01:44:18.460-07:002018-06-15T01:44:18.460-07:00Glasgow Boy, might I just add something to the quo...Glasgow Boy, might I just add something to the quote. Add 'but some other appendage or some other object.' I think.Tony Harmsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16607137729796535784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-47899946716757987152018-06-15T01:39:56.701-07:002018-06-15T01:39:56.701-07:00There is a difference between water which is const...There is a difference between water which is constantly very cold, like Loch Ness, and environments which become very cold seasonally.<br /><br />Terrapins do, as I think ROY said, have the ability to 'breathe' other than through the mouth and they do hibernate, spending months submerged in the right environment. <br /><br />They are certainly unusual, but living permanently at below 6 Centigrade would seem to be too much for them. I suppose it comes down to what you call a short period, GEZZA. <br /><br />As for terrapins being candidates for Nessie, there are many other problems with that, not worth exploring.Tony Harmsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16607137729796535784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-11662145849479014832018-06-15T01:27:38.459-07:002018-06-15T01:27:38.459-07:00I did not suggest you said terrapins are not repti...I did not suggest you said terrapins are not reptiles. I clarified that they are reptiles in my reply in case you or any other reader didn't know. They do also behave differently to many other reptiles including being one of the few which still inhabit the oceans. <br /><br />Looking at classifications of animals it is worthwhile taking each and looking at Loch Ness as a habitat.<br /><br />Reptile - Loch Ness too cold. Breathes air at the surface.<br />Mammal - Loch Ness has insufficient biomass. Breathes air regularly at the surface.<br />Invertebrate - Loch Ness freshwater and none known which move from salt to freshwater to get into the loch. Small invertebrates don't count as they can enter on birds' legs and boats, fishing gear etc.<br />Amphibian - same as Invertebrates.<br />Fish - the low biomass of Loch Ness could cause problems, but not as severe as fish can live many months without feeding.<br />Birds - well how about this one: https://www.livescience.com/62816-fish-with-bird-head-explained.html?utm_source=ls-newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20180614-ls Tony Harmsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16607137729796535784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-48836644104366927242018-06-15T00:36:34.730-07:002018-06-15T00:36:34.730-07:00Tony Harmsworth i think you will find you are wron...Tony Harmsworth i think you will find you are wrong that terrapins can only tolerate the cold for short periods of time.GEZZAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093032226034742612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-49006462061590726502018-06-14T14:56:40.269-07:002018-06-14T14:56:40.269-07:00"The large number of eyewitnesses who reporte..."The large number of eyewitnesses who reported the head and neck as having no discernible eyes or mouth raises the question of whether they weren't actually viewing a head and neck at all, but some other appendage."<br /><br />I have been thinking that way for a while, some elongated piece of musculature. I think fine tuned details such as eyes and nostrils are pretty hard to discern at typical witness distances and marks on the skin could be misconstrued thusly.Glasgow Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03597014995112568086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-27893501276403535532018-06-14T14:50:05.251-07:002018-06-14T14:50:05.251-07:00See here, Steve: http://lochnessmystery.blogspot.c...See here, Steve: http://lochnessmystery.blogspot.com/2013/10/george-edwards-confesses.html<br />Glasgow Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03597014995112568086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-28779515525704930202018-06-14T12:32:58.352-07:002018-06-14T12:32:58.352-07:00Hi Roland, just out of interest, how have you come...Hi Roland, just out of interest, how have you come to your 46 inches for George Edwards fibreglass hump at water level?<br />Iam not saying your wrong, you seem to be saying that this calculation was only possible thanks to something I uncovered.Steve felthamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04289817093650210471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-43433630182876091772018-06-14T11:53:18.466-07:002018-06-14T11:53:18.466-07:00Tony Harmsworth I've enjoyed your posts. Pleas...Tony Harmsworth I've enjoyed your posts. Please continue with this forum, I don't know why anyone would tell you to stay away. Friendly discussion here mostly isn't it?Naturewatch Enghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03062985122288755141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-54292231605911304252018-06-14T05:14:59.507-07:002018-06-14T05:14:59.507-07:00Who said terrapins are not reptiles? Not me lol.....Who said terrapins are not reptiles? Not me lol.....<br />ROYROYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07593737226241908577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-82134689260632621402018-06-14T04:35:25.671-07:002018-06-14T04:35:25.671-07:00I hadn't seen your post of 1.52am. Not offende...I hadn't seen your post of 1.52am. Not offended. <br /><br />However, there is another factor from your latest post which is important. <br /><br />Loch Ness did not begin as saltwater. At the end of the last ice age it was a glacier. It is above sea-level and no post-glacial marine diatoms have been found in the sediment so it was never invaded by the sea. So it has always been fresh and 12,000 years is far too short a time for something to have changed substantially. Whatever is in Loch Ness should also be found in the sea. <br /><br />So it would have been a straight jump from the sea to a very low pH cold freshwater lake. Hope that clarification helps. A good book on limnology might be useful to help understand the loch's formation.Tony Harmsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16607137729796535784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-54410213987211100282018-06-14T04:18:23.897-07:002018-06-14T04:18:23.897-07:00You are correct Naturewatch Eng, it is possible so...You are correct Naturewatch Eng, it is possible some other part of an animal could be involved. Not sure what, though.<br /><br />However, I do think ruling out options is important. If you discover, for some reason or another that it can't be this type of animal or that type of animal, it makes common sense to rule them out and narrow down the field. <br /><br />Look closely at the Rines head and neck. Knowing the cameras were rolling around the bottom part of the time, does it really, REALLY, look like a living creature? Each of us has to answer that for ourselves. Circumstantial evidence tells me it is likely to be a shot of the bottom of the bay and its texture tells me it is like none of the surface images or any other classification of animal. So I think not, but respect your decision to continue to call it 'suggestive'.Tony Harmsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16607137729796535784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-7363767923343301142018-06-14T04:11:11.352-07:002018-06-14T04:11:11.352-07:00Yes, GEZZA, I am the same Tony Harmsworth who saw ...Yes, GEZZA, I am the same Tony Harmsworth who saw and photographed something which I thought was about six feet long. It was suggested almost immediately that it might be ducks, but I didn't think so until I saw a similar group at the surface many years later.<br /><br />It is sometimes embarrassing to admit when something turns out to be a mistake, but I have always been honest about my mistakes. Neither do I feel the need to hide behind a pseudonym.Tony Harmsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16607137729796535784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-75645675893466310132018-06-14T04:07:38.157-07:002018-06-14T04:07:38.157-07:00ROY, the crab-eating frog can only tolerate saline...ROY, the crab-eating frog can only tolerate saline water for a short period of time. At Loch Ness, for a large species of amphibian to be the solution it must be capable of living permanently in saltwater (otherwise where did it come from) and then make a permanent transition from saltwater to freshwater to live in Loch Ness. No amphibian can tolerate permanent saltwater and no amphibian can move permanently from a saltwater environment to a freshwater environment Terrapins are reptiles and can only tolerate cold conditions for a short period of time going into the same type of stupor as any other reptile.<br /><br />However, your child-like string of questions are quick-fired without bothering to think about what you are asking first. They seem to be aimed at tripping me up without providing serious suggestions. It is like the child who asks 'why?' to every answer it is given. You need to do some critical analysis yourself before asking them, then you'd realise how likely they are to have a bearing on the Nessie issue.<br /><br />It seems to me that no matter what reasoning is put to you, you would rather come up with dozens of impossible solutions to the long-neck problem rather than accept the obvious one.<br /><br />I was told not to come on this forum and now I see why. However, I have tried my best to provide sensible suggestions. <br /><br />These alternative you keep raising are tiny creatures compared with the creature we would like to think inhabits Loch Ness. Tony Harmsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16607137729796535784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-58071885790748979132018-06-14T03:56:39.932-07:002018-06-14T03:56:39.932-07:00Yes, GEZZA, the size of an animal will affect its ...Yes, GEZZA, the size of an animal will affect its behaviour and how it interacts with its environment.Tony Harmsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16607137729796535784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-76915048391314273842018-06-14T01:52:53.804-07:002018-06-14T01:52:53.804-07:00Hope that didnt sound offensive mr harmsworth..i v...Hope that didnt sound offensive mr harmsworth..i value ur opinions! I wasnt calling u a know all i just meant in my humble we dont know everything from a fossil..maybe u do so its just a difffrence in opinion! I think animal adaption is greater than we think and if anything did enter loch ness from the sea all them years ago it wasnt a straight jump from salt water to fresh water..fresh water became over time so easier to adapt and we have evidence of this type of adaption as water dilutes! And nobody even knows when anything entered loch ness for sure..the loch is higher up than it used to be so maybe only a few thousand yearrs ago entry into loch ness was possibile! Anyway apolagies if my comment was read in wrong text ..i like both sides of the coin ..sceptic and believer! Anyway enough on animals and how they operate lol this post was bout fotographs!! ...good discussion though....cheers RoyROYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07593737226241908577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-72284366269954198512018-06-13T16:47:33.262-07:002018-06-13T16:47:33.262-07:00Martin's points about exposures are, as he poi...Martin's points about exposures are, as he points out, rarely considered. Exposure and focus settings the camera makes may not be ideal for what you want to shoot. I like having manual control over exposure/focus/etc, but that does put it all on me if I need a clear shot in an unusual situation - like seeing Nessie...<br /><br /> hopkarmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04721458738337150295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-23549526126635397082018-06-13T15:06:41.058-07:002018-06-13T15:06:41.058-07:00Is this the same Tony Harmsworth that was taken in...Is this the same Tony Harmsworth that was taken in by a couple of ducks?GEZZAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093032226034742612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-60287203466758086622018-06-13T13:11:53.036-07:002018-06-13T13:11:53.036-07:00Taking it round in a circle?? Dear dear....loch ne...Taking it round in a circle?? Dear dear....loch ness isnt saltwater!! And wat about the crab eating frog? Goes in saltwater...what about terrapins living in freezing conditions in local ponds? Animals adapt and can surely suprise us...unlike u tony i dont think i know it all from a fossil !!! ..cheeers RoyROYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07593737226241908577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-16382159296820718552018-06-13T11:09:31.521-07:002018-06-13T11:09:31.521-07:00So does a large turtle have different needs to a s...So does a large turtle have different needs to a small turtle?GEZZAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093032226034742612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-68439783302161604652018-06-13T10:12:03.271-07:002018-06-13T10:12:03.271-07:00The large number of eyewitnesses who reported the ...The large number of eyewitnesses who reported the head and neck as having no discernible eyes or mouth raises the question of whether they weren't actually viewing a head and neck at all, but some other appendage. I think it would be wrong to rule out all options until we finally have a specimen for examination. People have a mental picture of either a plesiosaur or something resembling one, but why? I don't think there have been more than a couple of reports where the eyewitness reported seeing flippers. I concede that Dinsdale's film is very suggestive of flippers due to the clear surging paddle strokes (a boat my backside!), but flippers are generally absent from the reports that I'm aware of. That could be because they're underwater, but I think it pays not to assume anything is there which hasn't been reported several times. I'm afraid to say I have my doubts on the Rines flipper photos, though of course he also captured an amazing image which was certainly suggestive of a head and neck.Naturewatch Enghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03062985122288755141noreply@blogger.com