tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post5480534624167392599..comments2024-03-20T18:13:07.791-07:00Comments on LOCH NESS MONSTER: Gould's Five PhotosGlasgow Boyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03597014995112568086noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-11892084061910210222014-06-20T13:36:47.076-07:002014-06-20T13:36:47.076-07:00The Loch Ness Monster is simply a straw man covere...The Loch Ness Monster is simply a straw man covered in tarpaulin. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-44236254546593461482014-06-19T11:19:53.856-07:002014-06-19T11:19:53.856-07:00Your format on this Website/Blog is just fine the ...Your format on this Website/Blog is just fine the way it is. It appeals to the average Nessie enthusiast who just wants the latest news and happenings on the LNM in an informative and entertaining manner (Nessie News Magazine). If you think the comments can get pretty contentious and a lot of bickering going on, imagine what a forum type format would be like. On a forum based website you’d have endless arguments and threads by skeptics (in the pretense of being erudite and knowing all) blowing off steam and believers pontificating, possibly leading to personal attacks, with you right in the middle refereeing. It could get rather nasty, don’t waste your time, save your sanity! And, I am sure you have a large following with some people just visiting for the latest information and entertainment value, not wishing to comment. No, leave well enough alone, Thank you.John Alvaradohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18069155979480353745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-60003067304861719572014-06-19T10:42:45.922-07:002014-06-19T10:42:45.922-07:00"Anonstg, that is evolution right there. They..."Anonstg, that is evolution right there. They are reacting like that because some fish eat crabs, and therefore they have evolved to fear fish sounds via the process of natural selection. . That example supports my point rather than refutes it."<br /><br />Well, it seems to me that you're using a rigid "it could not be otherwise" argument whereas I'd argue that a creature could have a range of potential behaviours in its toolbox. When a cat sits in the window and considers how to react to the metal monsters trundling along their well-beaten path where does that behaviour come from? Or when the first cats were stranded in places like Kerguelen Island did they need to have prior experience with all the species they encountered – or did they just "use their initiative" and get on with exterminating them? (And that's before you get on to things like Steve Plambeck's point about amphibians being able to prolong the juvenile stage in response to certain stimuli.)<br /><br />*AnonStg*<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-7681729449310818472014-06-19T02:03:54.805-07:002014-06-19T02:03:54.805-07:00Okay, Burton, so you are actually referring to the...Okay, Burton, so you are actually referring to the Forbes case and not the 1889 case and I take on board that you are being sceptical on a case by case basis rather than a full blown sceptic.<br /><br />The "average" monster has always been seen as bus sized by pro-monster people. I assume the Forbes took perspective into account when they made that estimate else they would have to downgrade a bit (as a rough and ready calculation, if the monster was halfway between the witnesses and the reference buses, it may have been half the size.<br /><br />I have already stated the problems with estimating speed. It is the most difficult parameter to estimate in my opinion. The water shearing off the sides of the creature can also give an exagerrated sense of speed as it adds that dramatic effect.<br />Glasgow Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03597014995112568086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-66491766048934894182014-06-19T01:53:29.899-07:002014-06-19T01:53:29.899-07:00Believe me, I do not find your response awkward in...Believe me, I do not find your response awkward in the slightest. You seem to know more about these boys lives than anyone here. Please enlighten us as to how you came by this information.<br /><br />You set up another straw man argument by stating that I believe that witnesses are "unable to do anything when faced with a monster". Clearly, witnesses "do" things, but the closer you get to the creature, the more the self preservation instinct kicks in and the less other things do. <br /><br />If you continue to ignore what I say and misrepresent the views of myself and others, I can only assume you are a troll.<br />Glasgow Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03597014995112568086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-865358282579933632014-06-18T12:06:13.499-07:002014-06-18T12:06:13.499-07:00Anonstg, that is evolution right there. They are ...Anonstg, that is evolution right there. They are reacting like that because some fish eat crabs, and therefore they have evolved to fear fish sounds via the process of natural selection. . That example supports my point rather than refutes it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-1779890494560414152014-06-18T10:35:47.623-07:002014-06-18T10:35:47.623-07:00Yes, how true GB, but at least people are paying a...Yes, how true GB, but at least people are paying attention and giving their opinion on the subject, which shows that there is still a great deal of interest in the LNM be it by believers or skeptics. On the matter of whether Gould would have accepted the five photos as absolute proof of the existence of an unkown creature, if I remember correctly he was a staunch supporter in it’s existence, although he did vacillate as to it’s nature. So, I tend to believe that any photo showing an anomalous “something” would fit in with his belief. Also, those five pics that I mentioned are the only ones fitting within that time frame, unless you can come up with any others. That was the focus of your piece.John Alvaradohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18069155979480353745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-51710868995336218992014-06-18T09:18:30.409-07:002014-06-18T09:18:30.409-07:00"It's clear to me you haven't read th..."It's clear to me you haven't read the article" is a stock GB response to an awkward skeptical post.<br /><br />The boys enjoyed the attention their story gave them. They continued enjoying it throughout their lives.<br /><br />Rowing away requires significantly more effort than raising a camera or phone and pressing a button. Call it what you will, but this action supports the skeptical position that witnesses are not unable to do anything when faced with a monster. This all looks like baloney to me, this monster story.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-47424520551519018502014-06-18T06:12:03.339-07:002014-06-18T06:12:03.339-07:00Seems the comments have diverged off onto other to...Seems the comments have diverged off onto other topics - again. My take is that the Wilson, Gray and best Mountain picture are there but I am not sure Gould have accepted the "unorthodox" look of the Adams picture. The rest of the available pictures are at best inconclusive (to me). So I am not sure.<br />Glasgow Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03597014995112568086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-29220390690099071722014-06-18T05:54:42.777-07:002014-06-18T05:54:42.777-07:00By the way, Roland, you assume too much of those w...By the way, Roland, you assume too much of those who don't agree with everything you believe. I'm not a sceptic here to disprove the cresture's existence. I've followed the legend since I was a kid and would love nothing more than something being discovered in the Loch. I simply don't believe every account or photo or video that comes down the pike. One legitimate bit of evidence is worth more than a million sketchy ones, but view me as you will.Burton Caruthersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-74539599124669455372014-06-18T05:46:45.721-07:002014-06-18T05:46:45.721-07:00Apologies for mixing up who said exactly what, but...Apologies for mixing up who said exactly what, but my point was that within that post witnesses compared the size of what they saw to buses on the opposite shore and said it moved with great speed. Please explain how it's an exaggeration and straw man when it clearly says those exact things in the article?Burton Caruthersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-74559977482610327262014-06-18T03:28:13.758-07:002014-06-18T03:28:13.758-07:00"A bold species will only morph into a timid ..."A bold species will only morph into a timid one if there are natural selection forces at work."<br /><br />Just picked up a copy of "The Times" in the cafe this morning and there was a short article about how crabs became worried and stopped feeding when played the sounds of fish.<br />And there is at least one report of an RN motor launch colliding with the LNM. What you make of it is another matter.<br /><br />*AnonStg*Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-75861436807233554962014-06-18T00:59:42.255-07:002014-06-18T00:59:42.255-07:00Habits can be learned without animals having to di...Habits can be learned without animals having to die. Kick a dog and he is unlikely to to go near you as often.<br /><br />As a matter of interest, how frequently do you think these creature(s) are supposed to surface?<br /><br />Who said anything about "freezing"? Not me. No time for photos, get out of here as quickly as possible! Shock and awe.<br /><br />Finally, has it occured to you that our "boy" in this story was nearer 70 years of age when he penned the letter?<br /><br />It is clear to me that you haven't read the article properly and are just looking for point scoring opportunities. Glasgow Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03597014995112568086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-959839908906734732014-06-17T15:20:49.318-07:002014-06-17T15:20:49.318-07:00Typical believer lack of evolutionary knowledge he...Typical believer lack of evolutionary knowledge here. A bold species will only morph into a timid one if there are natural selection forces at work. If humans or some other predatory or dangerous force was causing injury or death to the monsters, they would evolve to avoid the surface due to the ones surfacing less frequently surviving to reproduce, while the frequent surfacers perished.<br /><br />However, no boat has ever been reported to have collided with a hump and killed the animal, nor has a human ever attacked one. Therefore if they used to surface they still would now. Another point against the monster hypothesis. <br /><br />As for those boys, rowing frantically is NOT freezing in shock and awe, it's actually showing the ability to take action and not freeze. Another own goal GB.<br /><br />Finally, has it occurred to you that boys sometimes make up stories for fun?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-36039089447912799662014-06-17T12:00:05.908-07:002014-06-17T12:00:05.908-07:00There would have been some steamers going up and d...There would have been some steamers going up and down the loch before the lorries turned up. <br /><br />I'll check out that Scotsman reference, thanks.<br />Glasgow Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03597014995112568086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-32350320590712591422014-06-17T11:52:39.983-07:002014-06-17T11:52:39.983-07:00"Not a very elusive creature"
But it cou..."Not a very elusive creature"<br />But it could choose to make itself elusive in an environment of perceived threats and discomfort. Other people are correlating the decline in sightings with particular changes in technology and leisure habits, so I'll correlate the decline with changes in vessel technology and leisure cruising. (Loch Ness would have been pretty Sleepy Hollow in 1889, don't you think?) Other people will repeat themselves and I'll repeat myself. And so the board will become the Dead Sea Mystery.<br />*AnonStg*<br /><br />P.S. I just discovered that there's a "retro" report in the letters pages of the 1957 "Scotsman" of the writer encountering an old man in 1910 who had seen a huge monster while searching for birds' nests on the loch shore in his boyhood. That must make it one of the earliest reported sightings, even if it is unfortunately devalued by being written down well after the event. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-49136898992807617472014-06-17T06:18:51.250-07:002014-06-17T06:18:51.250-07:00First of all, Burton, you should not exaggerate to...First of all, Burton, you should not exaggerate to make a point. <br /><br />Nowhere does the 1889 account talk about a monster the size of a "bus" going off at an "astounding" speed for "10 minutes". That is the kind of straw man argument sceptics do not make an effort to avoid.<br /><br />Neither does one statistical point make a trend. The creature surfaces very rarely - period! It also surfaces very rarely near a witness - period! Very rarely times very rarely = extremely rarely.<br /><br />Then ask yourself a question, if those boys had a camera in 1889, would they have taken a picture during this rarest of opportunities?<br /><br />To quote: "My brother and I rowed desperately ashore and went home in a fright bordering on the hysterical".<br /><br />Shock and awe? Looks like it.<br /><br />Would they have waited to take a picture? Not bloody likely!<br /><br />Meanwhile, the sceptics take it as "irrefutable gospel" that not one sighting can possibly be a large creature and then trot out some tired story about birds and waves. Care to refute some of their approaches to eyewitness stories?<br /><br />Who is dismissing the mobile phone camera pictures? Some are rubbish due to the distances involved. That's all been done, the creature needs to be close up. <br /><br />Some look quite intriguing such as the Jon Rowe picture. What you are trying to impose here is an 1889 scenario as the norm. It is not, and these are the sightings which I am not inclined to dismiss as a line of birds. The sceptics dismiss everything with the flimsiest of excuses. Nowhere do I or anyone into the Loch Ness Monster say that all sightings are of monsters. Another straw man.<br /><br />So what was that about agendas?<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Glasgow Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03597014995112568086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-10966442462464488792014-06-17T05:24:57.011-07:002014-06-17T05:24:57.011-07:00Here's the problem with these seemingly built-...Here's the problem with these seemingly built-in excuses for all the poor photos and camera equipment - go back to the sighting from 1889. The boys described a creature as big as a bus frolicking astounding speed for 10 minutes or something like that? Not a very elusive creature, and something of the kind of proportions that would seemingly lend itself to being very photogenic, no?<br />Further, why are modern cell phone cameras more or less completely dismissed yet eyewitness accounts taken as irrefutable gospel? It's easy as to the why; eyewitness accounts offer no tangible evidence that can be easily refuted. You can't have it both ways out of convenience to one's agenda.Burton Caruthersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-46673304286910243892014-06-16T13:08:09.451-07:002014-06-16T13:08:09.451-07:00Only the very brightest people frequent this blog,...Only the very brightest people frequent this blog, jabbing away at the skeptics. Who cares about grammar when you have a big monster, huh?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-72442006125013288442014-06-16T03:48:54.546-07:002014-06-16T03:48:54.546-07:00You mean how these comments are structured? Yes, a...You mean how these comments are structured? Yes, a true forum based website would be better, but at the end of the day this is just a blog. <br /><br />I toyed with the idea of a proper website with more structure, but must admit I couldn't be bothered!<br />Glasgow Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03597014995112568086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-40449605095729094042014-06-16T03:38:46.805-07:002014-06-16T03:38:46.805-07:00The internet template software doesn't lend it...The internet template software doesn't lend itself to meaningful interchange.perhaps AI or a better software engineer maby?well GB?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-40482732373164924792014-06-16T03:35:34.126-07:002014-06-16T03:35:34.126-07:00Nightshift Skeptic,its difficult to capture on a w...Nightshift Skeptic,its difficult to capture on a water surface with a generic focal length and unframed reference.your beating a dead horse,characteristiclly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-50563447569698783792014-06-16T03:27:45.682-07:002014-06-16T03:27:45.682-07:00Haha.its Geordie.I recognized his sponsored logic,...Haha.its Geordie.I recognized his sponsored logic,CLEARLY!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-91715455258694877422014-06-16T03:05:41.966-07:002014-06-16T03:05:41.966-07:00Check previous comments on the blog made by others...Check previous comments on the blog made by others on similar statements.<br /><br />Glasgow Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03597014995112568086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-51765390323747943442014-06-16T02:47:37.687-07:002014-06-16T02:47:37.687-07:00OK playing Devil's advocate again here - where...OK playing Devil's advocate again here - where's the anecdotal evidence to back this 'difficulty capturing the image' theory?<br /><br />As with the 'shock and awe' theory - if it's to hold water we should be hearing reports of sightings that haven't been captured; "i was too spellbound to get the camera out", "i tried to film it but couldn't get the iphone to focus", etc, etc. Or we should be seeing some grainy, out of focus, blurry attempts at least?<br /><br />I'm not hearing of any such reports. <br /><br />I'm open-minded on the idea of something animate in the loch worthy of investigation, so while i'm sceptical about aspects of the phenomenon, i wouldn't describe myself as a sceptic per se. However, there's just no getting away from the elephant in the room!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com