tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post4167239639177812362..comments2024-03-20T18:13:07.791-07:00Comments on LOCH NESS MONSTER: Pseudo-scepticism and the Loch Ness MonsterGlasgow Boyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03597014995112568086noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-66050691272916526632019-03-08T18:21:01.187-08:002019-03-08T18:21:01.187-08:00Very true. We may be seeing the creature in variou...Very true. We may be seeing the creature in various stages of development or gender. Take for example the Johnston and Gray pics, slightly dissimilar. Whereas the Johnston creature looks smooth in contour, the Gray one looks rough. Looking at the most recent Phillips pic, one can note a degree of roughness to it also. I'm sure that in the animal kingdom, nature allows for these variances. John Alvaradohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18069155979480353745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-53478198956094511502019-03-08T08:10:12.298-08:002019-03-08T08:10:12.298-08:00Agreed.Agreed.paddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08990245875787442561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-20474294824854706412019-03-08T01:55:08.443-08:002019-03-08T01:55:08.443-08:00Surgeons photo is real.Surgeons photo is real.johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13948846515909819569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-79276558764492405862019-03-08T01:50:46.525-08:002019-03-08T01:50:46.525-08:00Yes well since the subtitle is "the good the ...Yes well since the subtitle is "the good the bad and the ugly", the ugly (i.e. fakes) get discussed too. The book is not a cheerleader for every "nessie" photo that was ever taken.<br />Glasgow Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03597014995112568086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-77701243894224383242019-03-07T19:37:50.700-08:002019-03-07T19:37:50.700-08:00Olrik I agree that many of the photos/videos where...Olrik I agree that many of the photos/videos where necks and heads are visible do not look the same or even similar, and I have two reasons for that. First of all - some are fakes. As for the photos that are not outright fakes? If we are dealing with an unknown animal we have many issues to deal with; young and old, male and female. Just as two examples, consider the differences between male and female in lions and peacocks. At the same time - one of Searle's greatest weaknesses was that he did not settle on one Nessie - each fake seemed to depict a very different animal... hopkarmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04721458738337150295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-40269774855649196312019-03-07T19:17:18.544-08:002019-03-07T19:17:18.544-08:00I don't have your new book yet GB - I imagine ...I don't have your new book yet GB - I imagine Searle is well discussed?hopkarmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04721458738337150295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-79841102416866892632019-03-07T19:12:47.998-08:002019-03-07T19:12:47.998-08:00I basically made this same point here a few days a...I basically made this same point here a few days ago: they came, the looked, they did not see; therefore it does not exist...hopkarmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04721458738337150295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-36136488904819867332019-03-07T19:09:02.707-08:002019-03-07T19:09:02.707-08:00It is tiny - compared to say, the Atlantic Ocean. ...It is tiny - compared to say, the Atlantic Ocean. John R - the next time you drive 20 miles think about how that is like driving along just one side of Loch Ness...hopkarmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04721458738337150295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-78439789124377966402019-03-07T19:03:31.614-08:002019-03-07T19:03:31.614-08:00I would disagree that "The Surgeon's phot...I would disagree that "The Surgeon's photo has been thoroughly debunked to the satisfaction of all skeptics and most believers". The debunking has been debunked, and has been discussed on these pages. To be specific - the claims put forth by Boyd and Martin, based on Spurling's "confession" (his word), are fradulent. On the other hand, the claims by DR et al regarding Dinsdale's film are simply wrong... hopkarmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04721458738337150295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-41227301898866348522019-03-07T15:23:00.014-08:002019-03-07T15:23:00.014-08:00Sure, if you could get “different” Nessies to sit...Sure, if you could get “different” Nessies to sit for neck up portraits and then run the face recognition program, then we could see if it's the same species of animal, or a different one within the same family... er, species or...oh never mind. Sorry Olrik, just being silly and snarky. I couldn't help myself. :) But seriously, your idea sounds like it has merit...theoretically.John Alvaradohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18069155979480353745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-14346961454216798132019-03-07T12:31:22.281-08:002019-03-07T12:31:22.281-08:00For example, many of the photos/videos where necks...For example, many of the photos/videos where necks and heads are visible do not look the same or even similar, at least to me. Could not a properly developed algorithm system like the ones the Chinese now routinely use to identify everybody by their facial features for security be used to determine which photos could at least be the same creature? I don't know, perhaps not practical for this situation...Olrikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14519546544726111480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-58672636335200965012019-03-06T15:20:59.736-08:002019-03-06T15:20:59.736-08:00Well, all your going to come up with is a database...Well, all your going to come up with is a database with correlations leading to all humps, dark blobs of something and long necks/appendages. Eyewitness accounts testify to that. It's like a puzzle with some pieces missing. What can we deduce from that unless we can get a near to full body shot?John Alvaradohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18069155979480353745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-12920482325992717422019-03-06T11:02:53.767-08:002019-03-06T11:02:53.767-08:00Many of the photos must be fake because they seem ...Many of the photos must be fake because they seem to show something that is not uniformly the same (assuming we are dealing with a single species here). Would be interesting to see a study with a pattern recognition analysis heuristic that could try to make sense of all the photo and video evidence... Olrikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14519546544726111480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-12584172927568563042019-03-06T10:53:57.525-08:002019-03-06T10:53:57.525-08:00Thats one thing i dont agree with mr raynor..the w...Thats one thing i dont agree with mr raynor..the wake is far too long and powerful for birds from that distance..i saw a comparison of megansers he used on a loch ness programme once and the birds wake clearly broke up after a few seconds...unlike his video of one long thick line...my humble of course...cheers ..RoyROYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07593737226241908577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-65849808826659912152019-03-06T07:34:42.435-08:002019-03-06T07:34:42.435-08:00Yes Dickie Raynor and Adrian have spent years up a...Yes Dickie Raynor and Adrian have spent years up at the loch trying to solve the mystery so cant hack it when somebody new to the loch gets a sighting or a photograph.The nearest Dickie got was his video in the 60's which he later said was birds chasing each other.GEZZAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093032226034742612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-81052832600843881532019-03-06T07:06:55.431-08:002019-03-06T07:06:55.431-08:00I have an interest in a lot of alternative subject...I have an interest in a lot of alternative subjects. Not all will be true but the possibilities are what drives my interest. On Saturday nights I have a drink with a few friends and one in particular (who I get on very well with) will not accept anything I say on these subjects. His usual reply is there is no evidence for any of this and my reply is usually that's because you haven't looked. When I offer evidence or information where evidence can be found he will not look because he thinks it is too silly to consider.<br /><br />A few years ago I was on a coach trip to Scotland and sat next to a man of a similar age as myself. We got on OK and happily discussed various alternative subjects but when I mentioned The Loch Ness Monster I could sense his attitude towards me change.<br /><br />People seem to have lost a sense of wonder and are buried in the mundane.Jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12914796874850776029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-45089767401934736742019-03-06T05:27:09.683-08:002019-03-06T05:27:09.683-08:00Indeed.
Indeed.<br />Glasgow Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03597014995112568086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-55243955347824161312019-03-06T05:26:44.136-08:002019-03-06T05:26:44.136-08:00lol and this is from people who "clearly"...lol and this is from people who "clearly" see canoe rudder joints and wires in old b&w nessie pictures and declare certain witnesses accurate when the object looks like a sturgeon.Glasgow Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03597014995112568086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-43135469312958829332019-03-06T05:24:09.648-08:002019-03-06T05:24:09.648-08:00Doubt it!Doubt it!Glasgow Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03597014995112568086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-88761237268951289052019-03-06T05:23:44.760-08:002019-03-06T05:23:44.760-08:00They of course have the right to hold a contrary p...They of course have the right to hold a contrary position, but trying to justify that position with strained and overweaned theories about memory and perception failures goes too far.Glasgow Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03597014995112568086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-6355850920904491392019-03-06T05:21:33.794-08:002019-03-06T05:21:33.794-08:00I would agree a lot of them come from a former pro...I would agree a lot of them come from a former pro-Nessie stance. Unfortunately, and as I have said before, they remind me of ex-alcoholics who go around hectoring others not to touch even a drop of alcohol. <br />Glasgow Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03597014995112568086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-7762724706176699672019-03-06T04:55:44.855-08:002019-03-06T04:55:44.855-08:00It must be frustrating spending years at the loch ...It must be frustrating spending years at the loch without seeing anything..prob wud make u sceptical!! Thats why i admire mr feltham cus he hasnt resorted to playing a hoax like Frank Searle or George Edwards did after getting frustrated after years of seeing nothing!!ROYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07593737226241908577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-69626337743960048842019-03-05T22:15:10.328-08:002019-03-05T22:15:10.328-08:00Regarding photos and eyewitnesses. I just saw a do...Regarding photos and eyewitnesses. I just saw a documentary on Lake Monsters with Adrian Shine giving various statements “The camera lies much more often then the witnesses; The classic pictures have got nothing to do with Loch Ness Monsters; Eyewitness testimony in a court of law would hold a great deal of weight, but science is not the law” Pretty much sums up the position of pseudo-skepticism as defined by this article. The camera lies as well as the witnesses! Is that like saying “guns kill people, people don't kill people.” So now you can't trust the camera! I'll admit that not all photos can be taken seriously, specially ones taken with crappy cameras and at long distances. Then there are the obvious misidentifications, fakes, and hoaxes which can be readily dismissed. As I understand it, science has it's own governing laws. There are some strange things that go on in the science of physics in the field of quantum mechanics that are hard to explain, puzzling or inexplicable and not so hard fixed. So what scientific rule, tenet, principle or law is there in the science of zoology to definitely affirm that there is no possibility of an unknown animal inhabiting Loch Ness. The creature may not be a cold blooded reptile or even a dinosaur. But then who knows, remember the coelacanth? Every now and then you also learn of some weird life form or creature discovered. from the depths of the ocean John Alvaradohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18069155979480353745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-13456167667391447762019-03-05T06:53:35.458-08:002019-03-05T06:53:35.458-08:00I think its more like because they have not found ...I think its more like because they have not found it then nobody else can. Deep down they still believe.GEZZAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09093032226034742612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-358999656752738469.post-28304967928285911622019-03-04T06:53:14.185-08:002019-03-04T06:53:14.185-08:00To be fair, some of the sceptics were once believe...To be fair, some of the sceptics were once believers, or at least open-minded to the notion of large unknown animals existing in Loch Ness. But after decades of their hands-on investigation failed to turn up incontrovertible, compelling evidence for the existence of such animals they were forced to re-evaluate the situation. As part of this re-evaluation they came up with alternate explanations for some/most of the sightings. However, they still allow for the possibility that some sort of large fish may be behind some of the sightings. paddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08990245875787442561noreply@blogger.com